HOME NEWS SCHEDULE POINTS RESULTS LINEUPS SPONSORS PHOTOS VIDEOS TRACK INFO RULES/FORMS CONTACT  

In Their Words - Volume 15 : Dave Tradup - Courtesty of Chateau Speedway History Facebook Group Page

Print this page
April 22, 2021

                                                                In Their Words Volume 15:  Dave Tradup

                                             (Pictures mentioned can be found in the Photo Library of This Page Also)

                 In Volume 15 of “In Their Words” we catch up with a man who raced over the course of about 25 years at Chateau Speedway, Dave Tradup of Viola.  Dave had numerous top 10 point finishes in several classes over the years but just one Points Title at Lansing.  (4th Street Stock 1976, 3rd Street/Hobby 1982, 8th WISSOTA Modified 1988, 9th WISSOTA Modified 1989, 10th WISSOTA Modified 1991, Limited Late Model 4th 1993, 9th WISSOTA Super Stock 1995) The Championship was in 1994 in the WISSOTA Super Stock Class.  He also finished second in the National Points that year, a finish many said was one spot lower than it should have been and he’ll talk about that and some of the controversies surrounding that car and the one he ran the following year when he was on his way to a second straight Track Championship but got into another little tussle with rule book interpretations.  Pictures of those cars as well as many other photos are included including pictures of the cars we talk about that are on his property yet as well as a unique double gas pump that he has in his work shop.  Also an interesting aerial photo of the old homestead he grew up on and built his first cars on which is just north of where he and his wife life now.  Also  photos of his new Speed Hobby project.  We caught up with Dave at his home in Mid April and had a nice conversation, looked at a lot of pictures (some of which we will share later of other cars and drivers), seen his Trophy Collection and then along with his wife went out for a nice Pizza Supper.  Lots more stories were shared over the course of the Pizza left us wishing the tape recorder would have been handy.  The funniest one that he told if I can try to relate it.  It was about a trip to Arizona; I believe it was with Bob Stier and Darrell Zwiefel for some racing.  The story had them getting a worker on a nearby construction site to bring his skid loader over to the hotel parking lot to help them change the motor in Darrell’s car.  After the switch they were trying to start the car and Darrell would apparently use a plastic pop bottle to pour gas in the carburetor to try to fire it.  Well the engine back fired, he jumped, gas spilled and squirted in the air.  The engine was on fire, Darrell was on fire and he threw the bottle and the parking lot was on fire.  There trying to dump their pop on Darrell to try to get the fire out on him and while this is going on the Hotel Clerk comes outside sees the scene, shakes his head and goes back inside.  Never did say how the racing went though, at that point of the story that part didn’t seem to matter.    The three of us had some pretty good laughs.  Both telling stories in between bites..   We did have a good conversation at his dining room table though while the tape was running.  So here he is Dave Tradup “In His Words:”

 

 

Webpage: The First wins of a Tradup in the Chateau Racing History is 1957 your Dad, Paul.

Dave:  I don’t even remember my Dad really racing, I can remember the car on the truck, I’ve seen pictures of it but I don’t remember going and watching him race, I was too young, I was born in ‘58. So he raced, I think it was from actually ‘54 to ‘62.  Is when he raced.

Webpage:  Your Dads take a lot of interest in your racing?

Dave:  As kids we always wanted to see the old movies he had of his racing and then my two older brothers started and we just all had an interest in it and then just went with it.  He was always there to help us, we never had a shop to work in, just an old garage, and then he did have an implement dealership he was in a partnership in and we could use that occasionally and work on the cars, but he was always there to help, he gave advice, if he said you’re doing it right it was like blessing (laughing) but ya he was always there, he’s a good guy.  He did well in his day; he won a lot of races himself.  He ran Rochester Fairgrounds, Kasson, Cannon Falls, Red Wing, he went to Durant a few times and raced, never went into Wisconsin, I don’t think Fountain City was there at the time.  They would have specials at different places.

 Webpage:  What are your earliest memories of being around racing?

Dave:  Selling caramel corn in the Kasson grandstands, probably 1965, 1966 for Ruth Dornack (Laughing) than watching the cars race.  Mert was there, I remember Chuck Jacobson, Wayne Peters, Dave Noble obviously.  You could go on and on about all those people there’s a lot, way more than that, Rich Olson, I wish I could remember, I know I will when we go through pictures here.

Webpage:  Who were your favorites?

Dave:  I always cheered for Mert Williams, he was one I always cheered for and then there was Roger Westra that raced in the next class down.  I always like Roger Westra.  And then I liked Elmer Dohlman if he ever showed up because he had the neatest cars, I always cheered for Elmer Dohlman too, he didn’t come around here much.  He’d be at St Charles.

Webpage:  Let’s talk about the Old cars you have outside we took pictures of let’s start with the Mert car.

Dave:  That is a car he built in about 1962 I believe it was it’s a 55 of 56 Pontiac and that’s what he raced here, I think he raced some IMCA down in Iowa.  He raced it around here with it quite a bit actually.  And then - he told me the story, he built the car that won that Northstar 500 at the State Fair. It was a brand new car a Pontiac a ‘61 or ‘62 that he made into a car and raced and won it and he got so mad because they were beating it all up in Iowa so he built…well he told me this anyway, he built this ‘55 to go run down there with them and that turned out to be a great car.  He won a lot with it, Rich Olson won in it a lot, Donnie a neighbor here actually raced it and he’s probably one of the last ones, he either won or blew up, I don’t think there was ever a second place he got with it.  And I wish I could remember the guys in between that, but there was several people in between there that did just as well with it, it was a good car.  I’d like to restore it someday. 

Webpage:  There’s a plain, no body, chassis you have out there

Dave:  That was a car that ‘um, my brother found down in Iowa, it was Red Drahle’s old Sanger car and he bought that and he raced it up here for two or three years.  I bought it from him and raced it just two or three time’s maybe and it disappeared.  I sold it and it disappeared and it showed up at elder Dohlman’s salvage yard about ten years ago, my brother bought it back and now he has it on the trailer down there.  Hopefully we’ll be able to restore that one too.

Webpage:  You have an old truck down there you said you want to do something with for someone.

Dave:  That’s was the neighbor kid, Andy, Andy Fritz was his name , he came up, oh he was about waist high to me with gopher traps to trap the farm up here.  He wanted to go trapping and he did that for about two weeks until he saw the race cars.  Then he started hanging around the race car shop.  Then he started going to the races with me and we’ve been great friends ever since, we’ve gone all over the Midwest.  I hate to admit it but I forged his legal guardian papers so he could go into the pits with me and he went all over the Midwest.  He’s doing well but ya he’s a great kid.  He always said I taught him everything and now I’m learning from him.   So it’s a good relationship.

Webpage:  The green and yellow number 2.

Dave:  That was a ‘69 Camaro, but in the year that car was built by Jim Bremner out of Rochester you couldn’t run a ‘69 so he filled in all the identities of a ‘69 and called it a ‘68 Camaro and then raced it in Kasson, Lansing, and Fountain City.  Ran it for about 2 or 3 years and then I bought it from him and raced it for another 5 or 6 years.  Won a few Championships with it, was a good car, we named it Herbie because it never seemed to give up.  Actually Dave Solumn named the car Herbie one time coming through the gate.  So ya that was a good car.  Had a lot of fun with that

Webpage:  Tell us about the White number 2 car, in that picture, which one is that.

Dave:  That car use to be Bob Shryock’s, Kelly Shryock’s dad.  That was his than it got turned into a Nova and Curt Vaith drove it, then I bought it and ran it, I think we built the car in 1980

Webpage:  Your First win at Chateau was in 1976 in a Street Stock.

Dave:  Street Stock than, 1967 Camaro, a piece of junk.  I have pictures of that here for you too.  I didn’t even know there was a record of that.   We only got there 5 or 6 times a year than I think with that car.  But ya, we won a few with that one, a few at Kasson with it.

Webpage:  1979 Hobby Stock and a Midseason Championship feature win among the wins.

Dave:  OK, boy, trying to think what car…that might have been the one Jim Brugner built or I raced Leroy Scharkey’s old Late Model too, his ‘70 Camaro.  I had both of those cars at the same time.  So it probably could have been either one of those.  That one of Leroy’s, that’s the one I bought from him.

Webpage:  1982 you’re running Street/Hobby.

Dave:  No most of my stuff was so old it didn’t, (laughs) well it was really just a Street Stock that wouldn’t of been a Hobby anyway

Webpage:  Late 80’s you’re in a WISSOTA Modified.

Dave:  Wonderful guy, Marv Newkirk was his name gave me a chassis….he moved to Texas and gave me a chassis to build.  So I built it and then later on he had his own car and I drove for Marv.  I just saw him the other day, he’s a good guy. 

Webpage:  Lot of top 10 Point Seasons at Chateau during that time and than a 3 Night Fall Special Stan Gilbertson had, you almost won one that title in 1991 but Mike Guttormson got it on the last night.

Dave:  Well one of em, I think we were leading and the transmission broke, I can’t signal it out but ya we always seemed to have good luck at Lansing.  That car was an old gentleman’s, Dave Morgan out of Rice Lake Wisconsin, built that car and it came from Cedar Lake, had a wing for it and stuff and we converted it and ran it down here with the other Modifieds down here,  but ya Mike Guttormson he was always up front, we had a lot of fun.

Webpage:  Limited late models and then Super Stocks much of the ‘90’s.

Dave:  They also had the Limited Late Models when they stopped the regular Late Models but ya I kind  of ended up in the Super Stocks  and then drove a Modified for Remax Realty, for Ray and Jeannie Nies.  That was a good car.  Won a few features with it …. Some tough competition Ron Jones, Mark Noble, Mike Guttormson, it just keeps going on and on the drivers….Mike Sorenson,  quite a list of people you had to try and beat and you didn’t get it done very often.

Webpage:  Let’s talk about your 1994 Championship Car.

Dave:  Ya the old ‘61 Chevy, it’s an interesting story when that all started but ah, Wayne Peters had a beautiful Sanger late model that he raced and they eliminated late models at the time.   And he put the thing away, and he actually stated cutting it up and Roger Herrick bought the car.  Than one time at Roger Herrick’s farm we looked and that car was sitting there, and we thought that would make a cool car to race.  It had a tubular front end on it so we had to change that.  Well than next to that he had an old ‘61 Chevy.   So we bought that car and we bought the ‘61 Chevy body and we combined them and people call me a liar but by the time we got to the track, used tires and everything I think we had $850 dollars in the car.  And it turned out to be a great car.  We made improvements after that through the whole thing, than it just got to be like part of the family, we just kept racing it.  We had a lot of fun with it; got us in a lot of trouble le but we had a lot of fun with that car

Webpage:  Talk about the controversy at the 100 with that car.

Dave:  Ya we qualified for the Race of Champions with it at the WISSOTA 100 and we went through tech and they looked at everything on the car and than that night the race got rained out so we came back that next day and raced.   Than we won the Race of Champions and when we got off the track they pulled it off to the side and said pull the hood off it, they said that intake is illegal.   I said well you’ve already inspected the car, here the sticker, where are the guys that inspected it, they said it was good cause everybody where I was racing had that same intake.  He said well they went home, well this was the first race of the night so I don’t know if they went home or not but it was irrelevant, it’s all part of the game,   it set us back a bit but it’s all good.

Webpage:  1994 lot of Feature wins and a missed National Championship.

Dave:  It was almost a perfect season and that’s what I was told too, some of the tracks apparently didn’t turn in some of the wins.  Right or wrong – whatever.  It makes for great conversation now.  Ya the Championship that wasn’t.   The car didn’t fit their mold, or there model of a Super Stock they wanted to see so.  It was kind of a thorn in their side the whole time anyway.

Webpage:  Let’s talk rumors, the intake was the only thing ever questioned on that car, other things have been suggested over the years.

Dave:  That was the only thing they ever had.  It was accused of a lot of stuff.  But it was never anything else.  It was all hand me down stuff through the whole car.  There wasn’t anything really illegal on it.  I mean you could battle that intake back and forth on it but ya, that’s ancient history. 

Webpage:  Did those troubles lead to the new car the next year?

Dave:  No, no we liked that car but Ray Weiss came up to me and his boy was running, Jason.  He came up to me and says Dave I want to build a few cars.  He said I will build you a car, and if you will race it for two years you can have it, it’s yours.  So I said, well that sounds like a pretty good deal to me you know, so we got the car from him, didn’t buy it, he built the whole chassis and we finished it off with the drive train and everything and we raced that for two years and that was a really, really nice car.  That car, it didn’t look faster than the ‘ 61 but it was.  It was way smoother than the ‘61.  I think Kevin who drove that for me after they claimed I was illegal at Lansing, said that car would turn a faster lap than a Modified and nobody believed it.   They had it on the clock, I didn’t time it, I don’t know, but Kevin drove it than while I was suspended for another whole adventure and he said he thinks it was faster than the Modified too once you got going.  Initial take off and stuff it took off.  Once you got the momentum built up it run a faster lap than the Modifieds.

Webpage:  That suspension messed up a second straight Track Championship.

Dave:  Ya…and that wasn’t really what I was after anyway, I just wanted to see what we could make work.  But, ya we still had fun.

Webpage:  Kevin was actually 3 for 3 in it while you were out, impressive.

Dave:  Ya see it wasn’t me at all; it was the car (Laughing)

Webpage:  Whatever you had to change didn’t change the speed of it.

Dave:  There wasn’t really anything illegal.  I was accused of way more with that car than was illegal.

Webpage:  What was it they nicked you for?

Dave:  That one there they pumped the engine, they said it was too big, which it wasn’t.  Ah, we took it apart, they measured it up, it was not.  Then they decided they didn’t find anything there.  Then they did see in one of the heads some work they didn’t like in there, right or wrong, than they took the head and took it up to WISSOTA and then they determined it was illegal.  (See Pic of small milling to make some used valves fit including pic of him pointing to spot on the one head they didn’t take)

Webpage:  Lot of the Super Stock competition you faced went onto Modifieds.

Dave:  There was a lot of ‘em, Tommy Myers came up through there, he was really, really good, and to try and beat him…..we ran Super Stocks against one another.  He went on to do way better than I had ever done.  People like Tommy; it was a lot of fun.  They were all good people, trying t think of who else we ran against….I have to say this because he was my favorite guy to race against…he went to Lansing a bit Chet Christopherson,  he only raced about three or four years I think,  but oh we had fun.  We’d start in the back and see who could get to the front first….if we got to the front.  It was just a battle between us all the time.  I don’t remember ever rubbing fenders with him but we sure drove hard.  He was a great guy to race against.  He always had a nice looking car.  There was a lot of competition out there, Steve Wetzstein he was always fast, he was good competition, there was a lot of guy s it was always a battle with.  Charlie Giesler ran than, than you had some guys would come down out of the Cities once and awhile, Jim Dickinson,   A Larson kid out of the Cities that ran, Ron Mahder would stop down and run… I don’t remember ever beating him.  (Laughing)  He was the one they gave that Championship too and he deserved it, he was fast.  It wasn’t like they gave him anything.

Webpage:  How did you adjust going back and forth between full body and open wheel?

Dave:  I don’t know what it was; I never - never got comfortable in a Modified.  I never felt totally comfortable, where I could do what I wanted to do.  It could have been me, it could have been the car, I never had the right car, I don’t know but I never ever got comfortable in a Modified.

Webpage:  Talk setups vs. motors.

Dave:  People will probably disagree; I never really had a decent motor.  It was always --- we always tried to make do with what we had and then try to make the car work on the setup.  ‘Cause usually it wasn’t fast off the get go but like you say you could build up momentum and get going and then you could run fast that way.

Webpage:  Lots of help over the years:

Dave:  Boy there’s been a lot of ‘em, my brothers, my Dad, ah, Jay Phillips and Rich Gasner,   Jay Phillips was a gentleman I raced against and we  became pretty good friends with that and then he helped me in the later years.  Than Jim Brehmer who I bought the  ‘68-‘69 Camaro from, after I bought it he came and helped us a few years later and he was with us a long time.  He helped me do a lot of stuff.  He taught me a lot of stuff, so I have to give him a lot of credit.  He made me see things I never saw, so….then way later Larry Howitz, I actually drove a car for him on the asphalt and stuff.  But around Lansing that was pretty much…I know I’m forgetting a bunch of people, I feel terrible cause I know I’m forgetting some people.   Everybody worked hard, really worked hard on the car.  Nobody every gave up.

Webpage:  When did you decided to quit?

Dave:  Probably the last, I don’t know the last 3 or 4 years we ran I wasn’t …. My heart really wasn’t in it.  And then Jay Phillips kept pushing me, and we still did good.  I mean Jay helped out a lot and we’d still do well and then one night we were driving home from … I don’t know what race track it was, and the night had even went good, and my wife and me sitting there and she says you know this isn’t as much fun as it use to be….and I said you know I agree with you and that next week we put the car up for sale and sold everything.  Gave some things away.  Just got rid of it and didn’t go to a race for 15 years something like that, didn’t get to a dirt race track for 15 years. 

Webpage:  Your Wife go to a lot of races with you?

Dave:  Ya she went just about every week.   She enjoyed it….that where I met her, I met her at the races, so she enjoyed it. But than there are other things in life other than racing too, we wanted to see so that led us to that.  I often think about it, how it would have been if you would of continued on, or if you started again.  Never pursued it but I often think about it.   I’d hate to be told you couldn’t stay away could you (laughing)

Webpage:  How much traveling did you do?

Dave:  Because I thought you might ask this I wrote this list down on this notebook.  (Laughing)  We’ve run Marshfield Wisconsin, Rice Lake Wisconsin, Cedar Lake Wisconsin, Menomonee Wisconsin, River Raceway, and LaCrosse Speedway.  In Minnesota, Lansing, Owatonna, Austin Fairgrounds we got to race there, Faribault, St Charles, Rochester Fairgrounds, Kasson, Arlington, Morristown – you remember that track, raced up there, Elko – we raced at Elko, Minnesota State Fair Grounds we got to race that during the Fair, Deer Creek, Red Wing – that was just the tail end of when it was open, than they reopened it for just a special deal.  Cresco Iowa, Mason City, went to Arkansas and raced, than Tom Ferguson asked me to race a modified at Amarillo Texas we went down there. 

Webpage:  You mentioned some asphalt racing.

Dave:  Ya LaCrosse is asphalt, Elko was asphalt, Minnesota State Fairgrounds was asphalt too.  In the 80’s I built a car just for it and we raced Wednesday nights.  Didn’t miss any races around here.  Than later on we had a couple cars that, Larry Phillips had, a Late Model, ran in NASCAR Late Model down in LaCrosse.  We had an old Dodge we ran down there for awhile too.  Trying to think…I can’t brag about it cause the whole career of running asphalt I won one race, out of all of it (laughing)  few seconds but one race is all we ever won, so that wasn’t a real great career on the blacktop.

Webpage:  Compare the styles.

Dave:  For me it seemed like, on dirt you could run hard, you could put it --- if the car didn’t work right you could put it on the cushion or run a different lane whereas on the asphalt you had to stay just exactly right, hit your spots on the track and keep that same focus and pattern on the track the whole time and I was terrible at it.  I didn’t have any focus, I didn’t, the harder I drove, the slower I went, and ya (laugh) it wasn’t pretty.  I’m sure if I would have had somebody who could of told me what to do it would of helped but I was just winging it, we didn’t know.  It looked like something that would be fun.

Webpage:  Anything you wish you would have done different?

Dave:  I don’t think I could of done anything different with the knowledge I had.  If you went back know with the knowledge, there’s a lot of money wasted you wouldn’t of had to waste.  (Laugh) I guess that’s the biggest thing.  I couldn’t of put any more time in ‘cause that was everything to me in the day, ‘um, but ya wish I would of tried more things I guess.  A few more changes….I think I could of done al little better than I did, but its all part of it.  No regrets, I don’t have any dislike for anybody associated with the racing or anything.   To me it was just a good time, made a lot of friends, learned a lot.  Ya it was just fun…. A lot of work - a lot of fun, like I said, a lot of friends.  Friends I made are still friends and we still do stuff to this day.

Webpage:  You attend the Old Timer’s events.

Dave:  I love seeing the old drivers come to that, I like seeing all of them and the pictures, and get the history of what I thought was so awesome, the racing, that was the era I loved, from the 50’s to the 60’s and into the 70’s….the Chevelle’s  and ‘57 Chevy’s and stuff like that.  I remember watching them all race.

Webpage:  We’ve lost so many tracks.

Dave:  Ya most of the Fairgrounds Tracks are all gone, like I said I was lucky enough to get to Austin.  I know they had a special there once and we raced, I really enjoyed that, I t was fun – I get to say I raced there.  I think Arlington is still there, Morristown is obviously gone, Minnesota State Fairgrounds is even gone, Red Wing, ya there’s a lot of ‘em.  I’ve been out so long, outside of Lansing and Deer Creek, Fountain City I don’t even know what races are going on anymore.  We started going about once a year, I’ll go to a race to see what’s going on, it’s changed a lot, but than in some ways it hasn’t changed at all.

Webpage:  Any rivalries?

Dave:  There was always heated rivalries with everyone, there’s so much emotion on the track that it seems no matter who your racing against there’s a rivalry.  The fans get into it more than I ever did, you know I never, I don’t think I ever said too much or did too much.  My goal was to just work harder for the next week, beat ‘em the next week.  That’s kind of what I was after.  It was hard to avoid some of it; I’m not going to throw any mud on anybody for anything that happened it’s just part of the racing emotions that everybody gets into.

Webpage:  People still say good things about you on the history page.

Dave:  That’s good to hear … the one thing I remember about Lansing, and this kind of changes the subject but when we would go to Lansing to race there would be a young man, I think he was 10 or 12 years old who would come up and stand by the fence and greet me every time I came. I wish I knew who he was; I’d love to talk to him now.  But that’s the kind of stuff I remember that I love about racing   I don’t remember his name.   But every week he would come there.  Through thick or thin no matter how we did he was always there.

Webpage:  Maybe somebody will tell us.

Dave:  That would be awesome, that would be cool, there are a lot of people that would always come down. Two old boys, I’m sure there not around anymore, after the races they would always come down and we’d talk and stuff, I know they were form the Blooming Prairie area.  I know one passed away because I went to hi s funeral.  I’m sure they were old enough that the other one isn’t around anymore.   And many more fans too, that’s what made it for me.

Webpage:  Not as many people come down any more.

Dave:  There would always be groups come down after the races …that was the fun to me.  There was another young boy, Troy was his name, and when he was about the same age as that other young lad from Lansing he would come down at Kasson.  I said you want a ride in the car, he looked at me funny, I said get in, so I unloaded the car after the races and took about 3 laps around the track, not fast, just drove around and then I didn’t see him.  Well he came back as a 20 year old, he was in college, said you remember me, I did, I remembered his name, I said Troy, I remember you I gave you a ride around the track, his wife was with him and stuff.  That’s cool when you, I guess influence or be part of somebody’s life like that.  That might be a regret from racing that I didn’t do better with the public, your focused on racing and your thinking about something and somebody says something and you don’t acknowledge it or you just don’t give the right response you should of …it’s too late now.  It is what it is your still mad about the race or thinking about something or whatever it is, ya that’s part of that game too. 

Webpage:  It really is a Family sport.

Dave:  It’s always families, now over three generations, however long as it’s there, its generation after generation and they becomes friends, ya its quite a family.

Webpage:  Finally let’s talk about your new Hobby, the Land Speed Car out in the Shop.

Dave:  We built this car; we started trying to go for a land speed record at the Bonneville Salt Flats.  The record speed were going for is 253, we’ve already gone 255 but we broke after and you had to do it twice so we couldn’t back it up, so we actually have gone faster than the world record, but we can’t brag about it (laugh) because it hasn’t been proved.  We’ve gone from 2008 until present, we’ve been going every year.  Built the car, and the funny part is there’s old Stock Car parts in this, and the old pit crew, the Andy we talked about, my brother, Jim Brehmer, they all helped, we all did this.  They wanted to do something so that’s what it is.  The body is from underneath the wing of a jet, it’s an auxiliary fuel tank from the wing of a jet, called a belly tank.  My uncle’s been doing it for years and then he talked me into it and we have another way to waste money. (Laughing)   We’d go out and watch him run because he’s held records well over 350 mph in his class.  But he wanted us to do this in this Lakester version, there not quite as fast so that’s what we’ve been doing now, he’s Edward Tradup.  Ya it wasn’t as bad as I thought it might be.  (Laughing)  I wanted t go faster so evidently it wasn’t as bad as I thought it might be.

Webpage:  What does it feel like in the car going that fast?

Dave:  I tell everybody this …. It’s like when you took your Dads Buick Electra 225 or Bonneville he had and put it on the interstate and put it to the floor and the needle disappeared on the speedometer and your going way to fast and if something happens you know you’re in deep s***, that’s about what it feels like,  I know the speeds not the same but the thrill is about the same.  You know if anything went wrong you’re in deep trouble. Were going down again in October, I don’t think we’ll make the August one … I think we’ll probably go in October.  In August there’s about 500 of us, in October there’s about 200.  That’s kind of why we started going in October it’s a little easier … and than there’s many classes.   There’s only 3 of us trying to get this record …ones from Texas and one is from California.  So hopefully we get it before somebody makes it higher (laughing) it’s just like Stock Car racing, you don’t make a dime.  (Laughing)